Struggling with 7 year old, no diagnosis but please help us!

[ferdiejones]

Hi all

This is my first time here just been trawling for help and this seems the most positive and non-frightening site, can anyone offer any advice, sorry think i just need to offload!

Our 7 year old (J) is very VERY hard work. Has been really hard all his life but particularly since about 3 years old. School are now noticing problems (behind with work, crouching in corneres, wont make eye contact etc) so they have called in the Autism team. We have completely the opposite problem at home.....

He is rude, agressive, spiteful and all round not much fun to parent. Everything you say to him he 'already knew that' or 'why do i have to do that' if we compiment his little brother on a nice peace of work he will say 'no it's not it rubbish' he calls everyone 'stinky', replies to me 'yes mater' and then still doesnt do whatever it is. Tonight his little brother had been crying saying he hates himself because J is always calling him names or pushing him about and telling him he cant do stuff.

He has no fear and no common sense, frequently runs off, into the road etc and if i ahour him to stop will turn around and laugh at me and carry on, if I then make him hold my hand he will squeeze and pinch me and then say ' I made your hand red ha ha!' We were on a little train ride today and he saw the sign saying to keep arms and legs in, this was like a dare to him, he kept sticking them out. Now he is a VERY bright boy and he undertsnds this but if you try to tell him off ever he just gets stupid, pulls faces or gives real attitud. I have even really shouted at him and siad some horrid things and he just smirks. I have no idea how to get through to him.


He does like all the routine type stuff, lining toys up, order and routine. If I say we are going somewhere then events conspirer against us and we cant then he will keep going on about it for hours even after I have explained, then he will say and hour later 'were going to ...now arent we' and I say ' no, you know were not because of...' (after already explaining several times) and he will say 'yes we are, you said we were' etc and this will go on all night until I ebd up in tears and send him to his room.

How on earth do you deal with these things? I dont want to control him or take away his spirit but I really cannot have him being so horrid to people and us. I darent even complinment anyone in front of him as he just says such nasty things when i try to explain that it make people sad he looks at me like I am talking chinese.

I am at the end of my tether with this as I am frightned for what will become of him and that if i dont do something soon out replationship will get ruined beyond repair. As it is I dread seeing him in the monring and when he comes out of school as the first thing he usually says to me is really rude.

Can anyone help me?

Thanks

xx

[kittykat123123]

I'm afraid this was vastly different from my own experience, so I won't be able to advise you a great deal. The only thing I could think of was about the changing routine. I used to get really frustrated if there was a quick change, especially if it meant I couldn't get out of the house etc. If you are able next time it might be worth trying to substitute changes, e.g. not able to go to the cinema, so we're going to go for a walk instead in twenty minutes (rather than sitting around the house, it will give him something to do).
The problems talking to other people is tricky, perhaps try some social skills therapy? Or maybe every time he says something nasty tell him that it makes you upset, and ask him how he would feel if you said it to him, or say it to him? I'm not sure. My mum's trick is to say "I love you" when ever someone says "I hate you" to her.

[jerry5]

our lad is coming up to 7 and some of what you say strikes a chord, though he is not as aggrressive as your lad seems.On the other hand all his siblings are much older and have flown the nest so there is no real competition for him or sibling rivalry to contend with and, from what you say, this seems to be part of his problem. On the other hand he can be very demanding and in your face-particularly so with mum, and seems to have no concept of personnel space. He too can be rude, like your son calling people "stinky butt" !, and is very stubborn so that if you tell him a time limit for something for example, he will argue and argue to try and get more time on the pc or whatever. At the end of the day, AS or not , he is a child and children push boundries, its what they do (along with an uncanny ability to really wind mum and dad up in the process!). Hope I'm not "teaching you to suck eggs", but have you tried sticker charts or earning points/tokens for a reward for good behaviour and ignoring rather than punishing bad? Not that any of these tacts worked very long term with ours but they did help at times. We also find that its no good trying to "reason" with them for too long as it just plays into their hands as another means of delay. Yes, you explain to them, but at the end of the day you are the adult, you are in charge. Dont get drawn into the trap of arguing with them (it'll only wind you up more) give them time limits (and do a count down of this eg 10 more mins/5 more mins etc)and stick to them. Dont give him a multitude of choices either, a simple A or B works far better with our son. He is probably too old for the "naughty step" thing now but if he wont come off the pc when his time is up I turn it off and he may well try to turn it back on but you have to force the issue. As with all kids they have to know that when you say something you mean it and you will stick to it. And, no , this aint easy!, but if you dont want to make a rod for your own back...One of the problems we find however is that we have to be carefull not to wind him up too much as he can get very panicky about things and certainly, because of his AS, he might go into one and sometimes its anxiety over what to us may seem a very trivial thing and sometimes there seems to be no trigger.None the less this anxiety is real to him and in these instances we find it best to let him chill out for a bit doing what he wants to do. Its hard sometimes to work out when he is just being naughty and when he is genuinely upset. You dont want to be too harsh on him because of the influence of his AS which he cant help but on the other hand you cant make that the excuse for when he is being just naughty or rude and in either event he has to realize that some behaviour is not acceptable. We are currently in the process of getting our son statemented and the one to one he gets at school is critical as the previous year he spent mostly under a table refusing to join in, has your lad shown this sort of behaviour at school in the past or is it just recently? If so some of it maybe his relationship with the class teacher-in our experience there are quite a few who could do with some basic knowledge of AS as they seem to put all his behaviour down to stubborn ness and mis behaving rather than simply signs of anxiety or AS traits (not giving eye contact is wrongly seen as not paying attention for eg). Cant really offer much advice on the sibling rivalry thing as its not an issue for our son but have you tried setting out times for an activity just for you and him, whether it be just reading a story together so that he has a time when he knows he has just your attention and youre not going to be disracted by his brother? Hope some of this helps-and remember, it may seem the hardest thing of all, but its vital that you too get some "me time" so that you can get a bit of de-stress time in order to better deal with stuff. Lastly, books I found helpfull were brenda boyds "parenting a child with AS" and tony attwoods book on aspergers. If youre like us youll read it and constantly go yeah,thats just like him! And its a relief in a way because you know that-whilst all kids are different-there are a lot of people feeling just like you are, and that there is also help and advice to be had as you try to understand how your child sees the world and help make it a bit easier for him. Sorry to waffle on, hope I made some sort of sense.
take care
jerry

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kittykat,
must be a girl thing, if our lad is doing the "I hate you" thing my wife says exactly the same as your mum does-even if he is hitting her! (me, I'm afraid I'm not so saintly!)

[ferdiejones]

Thanks, both for the reply. It is just nice to know that others have been here and we are not alone, it means a lot to me that you took the time to reply.

We have tried all the rewards/diversions etc etc (we even went through a 12 week parenting course to make sure we werent missing anything) but nothing seems to work. Funny thing is that rewarding has the opposite effect eg he may be eating nice so we say 'nice eating, well done you can have some extra cake' and he will spit out whatever is in his mouth onto the plate or something equally gross! He really doesnt like anything that gives him attention. We do all the 'it makes me sad' stuff and he will say 'ha ha, I made you sad'!

We really are at our wits end, I find it so hard to parent him and yet his 4 year old brother is a dream so I hate to say it but we can't be that bad, but J just seems to not respond to the stuff that 99% of the population responde to. I just need find how to get through to him.

Luckily the lady from the Autism team is coming next week to chat to us so hopefully she can help and I will keep checking back here, so if anyone has any ideas......

Thanks all xx

[Sammysnake]

I'm definitely no expert and I know it can be very dangerous to self-diagnosise.... bearing all that in mind ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder) potentially springs to mind. I'm really pleased you're seeing someone from the Autism Team - hopefully they can lead you down the right path to get the information and support you need. Chin up, from your post it is clear that you are a very caring parent dealing with a horrendous burden. You clearly love your son (although not his behaviour). You have been on parenting courses and are here looking for advice so you obviously want to do the very best you can for him - I think he's lucky to have you. Good luck with the meeting.

[kittykat123123]

I hope the Autism Team will be able to help, wishing you good luck.

Also, Jerry: it's definitely a mum thing.

[ferdiejones]

Thanks all for the support just got to keep going!xx

[jerry5]

Ditto what Sammy and Kittykat have said. It really can be very frustrating-and upsetting-at times, but you are both doing the best you can and just knowing that you are not the only ones going through it can be a bit of a help. All the very best with the meeting, I hope you can get both support and some stratergies that can work for you all out of it. Keep in touch,
best wishes, jerry

[hannah88]

what about using visual aids such as a green, yellow and red card with a happy, normal and sad face on them. You ca use them to show him how he is making other people feel rather then trying to explain it.

[jerry5]

like quite a few aspies our son finds it hard to read body language or guage others emotions or pick up on how his behaviour can make others feel so thats a good tool to use hannah